Friday, October 10, 2008Counter View Offered on Pet Access to Willard BeachWith the official release of the Willard Beach Task force report only days away, a new Web site has appeared that offers an alternative view on whether to allow dogs on Willard Beach.
Posted by Linda on 10/10 at 06:35 PM
Categories: City Council Dog Owners Group Willard Beach Permalink Email This Entry Share:
CommentsBy Deni on 2008 10 10 too bad the pictures aren’t clear enough to show the woman and her children walking the dog and “leaving the mess behind”. I can’t make it out.
By Crystal Goodrich (southportlanddog@yahoo.com) on 2008 10 10 Hello everyone-
I welcome anyone to join us on our monthly clean up dates the Dog Owners Group has all summer long and all winter long. We usually have them on the first Saturday of each month.
Thank you!
By Gary Crosby on 2008 10 12 While being on the task force we all agreed not to talk to the press or otherwise address the issue. Our time on the board is now over and I am now able to speak up. First off I am a dog owner and have been nearly all my life. I do not hate dogs as some may think. However I do believe people come first. This issue is more than just disease and parasites. There are people that have a very real fear of dogs and find dog poop to be gross. There are reports of people having been jumped on, knocked down, food taken, stepping in poop, play toys taken and the list goes on. In looking at the sopodog web site I counted 10 locations to exercise dogs. The group I am part of believes it is not at all unreasonable to have one of those 10 locations available to exclusive human use for 5 months a year. Most dog owners are responsible however there are some that are not and that will never change. As I walked the beach one day I watched a ladies dog have diarrhea all over the the soft sand and she proceeded to walk right by it and three dogs pee on the play set and one in the dunes. Now most of this is not a problem in the off season but during the summer it is. In all literature to be found the common thread is do not let children play where dogs poop. Now this is pretty simple to cure. On the issue of sharing. Part of sharing means not ruining it for the other party so as to not be usable in their eyes. I and many others find it to be unusable after all the dogs get to use it from 6-9 am during the summer. As for the so called lack of people speaking up, that is because they don’t want to be verbally attacked so they speak of it in private to those of us willing to be public. At this point there are a lot of people that I and a few others speak for. Also as a dog owner I have made it known I am in favor of a good dog park and would be willing to work on that with anyone. If it is done well it will take the pressure off all other public space and everyone there will be there for the same reason. By Oh Poop on 2008 10 13 Dog parks do not work! One area becomes overburdened by handling all of the area dogs rather than disbursing them throughout the city’s open spaces. It becomes a penned-in mess that is unactractive to visit and no longer encourages social interaction and community involvement. Those who currently use the beach and parks have healthy, positive interactions with their neighbors, they participate in clean-up events (necessitated by ill-behaved humans), and their use of the spaces has reduced crime and increased safety. Lastly, there are many humans who believe that owning a dog is not about having another possession...another thing that you take out when you want to enjoy it and then return it to its cage. My dogs are a part of our family. They participate in every family event, they travel with us to visit family and friends or on vacations, they get me out of the house every day and encourage not only my getting exercise, but social interaction with my neighbors, and they give me unconditional love. My walks with them on the beach or at the park often are more for my benefit than theirs. So, if I am obeying the laws, and am respectful of other humans (yes, I heel my dogs when I see a jogger or young children), please explain to me why I cannot enjoy our city spaces like you enjoy them with your grandchildren, Gary? Until proven otherwise, I am certain that this issue truly is more about a few wealthy beachfront homeowners who wish to have a private beach rather than about (unsubstantiated) dog poop concerns. By makeitapark on 2008 10 13 accept state rules, fence it off and make Willard a State Park. All users, even those living 100ft from the beach will have to pay a fee or buy a state park pass to enter the area. This will pay for the people working there, pay for enforcement to be on the scene, and it will help curb the less the diligent dog owners. This will also then pay for any resource issues at the beach as well including replanting dune grass or anything else… By Dog Owner (sussiechase@yahoo.com) on 2008 10 13 I am a bit fed up with reading and hearing that people who are opposed to allowing dogs on the beach are afraid to speak up because they “don’t want to be verbally attacked.” One of our esteemed city councilors made this claim earlier this year and a very vocal Task Force member is making the claim again. You are making us dog owners out to be monsters, when in fact, we are just speaking up about an issue that is very important to us. If there are hoards of people who feel unsafe on the beach, I implore them to address their concerns to the Dog Owners Group or email their Councilor, so that we actually can count the number of complaints. We are extremely reasonable and self policing..believe me...we are obviously passionate about access to exercising our dogs and socializing with our dogs in outdoor settings, so we want to keep it possible. By CommunitySplit on 2008 10 13 1.) the task force recommendations do not call for a dog park, in fact they don’t want one at all. That idea was shot down. That will not happen. 2.) it doesn’t sound like Gary Crosby’s group wants to work with anyone except for anyone who will get dogs off the beach in the summer. That is the bottom line according to his website. 3.) does anyone else find it odd that while the Dog Owners Group has names of local citizens, members and the president of the group with their contact information - the site Gary Crosby owns does not have his name on it at all? Only “sopodefender@yahoo.com” and a “contact us” form that doesn’t tell you who you are writing to. 4.) does anyone know what time the first meeting is for the Save Willard Beach group? I know it’s tomorrow Tuesday 10/14 at the community center, but not what time it will be. I have lots of ideas for how to Save Willard Beach from the people who want to make it private and for their selected uses only. 5.) will the Save Willard Beach group be addressing the Maine Healthy Beaches report and extend the pipes that provide runoff discharge into Casco Bay to improve the water quality on the beach? That would be productive, but I see it is not a goal of the group. It seems the goals of the group are to further divide the community in the beach neighborhood and the South Portland community overall. It’s too bad there aren’t more groups that try to bring people together to deal with problems instead of working on their own limited agenda of making public property private and used by a “silent group”. It’s a shame that the community has had to suffer through all of this and that the Council has supported this kind of behavior. I am also surprised that Mr. Crosby brought this new group forward before the report on the dog task force was given at the workshop. How very undermining of the group that gave all of their time to get the recommendations written. By john g on 2008 10 13 Wow, I’ve seen/heard it all now. My youngest daughter is terrified of dogs. At numerous city council meetings I’ve spoken about the issue with dogs at Willard beach. Back in october of ‘06 i purchased a home on Beach St hoping to enjoy the location and have had mostly negative experiences since i moved here. ‘Oh Poop’ you are an idiot… do you have children, i’m guessing you do not, heel, heel. I play soccer, throw a football, baseball, frisbee and such with my three children on the athletic fields at SMCC. All the while I watch dog owners lead their dogs down the green belt, leash free, and when my oldest daughter goes down to the beach I have to hold my youngest while we are up on the field because she it too afraid to go with my oldest. Standing there keeping an eye on my oldest down at the water I’ve watched numerous dogs run up to her well away from the dogs ‘owner’. I am sick and tired of stupid dogs owners and sopodogs touting Willard beach as a ‘dog friendly’ spot. When I moved here I’d asked my next door neighbor why he put up an above ground pool in his back yard and his response absolutely floored me. and i quote “Well, I’ve had a number of run-ins with dog owners and decided that it is just easier to not go to the beach, that’s why I set up the pool.”
I, for one, am not a wealthy beach-front owner and I’m committed to seeing that during the ‘people’ season dogs are OFF the beach. One last comment, two-faced dr. douggie howell is biased to keeping dogs on the beach as he just bought a ‘beach-front’ property and wants to let his pooches pee and poo where our children will play. Also he said as much in an early meeting of the Willard Beach Task force. That being “It’s actually good for children’s immune systems to play in feces, it helps strengthen it.” What a joke.....
I look forward to discussing these issues with Crystal Goodrich and the entire South Portland population. Once people have heard ALL the issues I’m sure the reasonable people of South Portland will agree that Willard Beach is not for the dogs. By john g on 2008 10 13 This response is directed to ‘Dog Owner’ . Aren’t you Patti Smith’s partner? And I also understand that you both are for keeping open spaces within South Portland open for dogs off leash? What about the residents of South Portland that are afraid of dogs???? Do they not count? What about people with children that are afraid or timid of dogs, do they not count as well??? I’m going to do my best to make sure this information gets to all the voters of South Portland not just your group. By Gary Crosby on 2008 10 13 A number of things. Oh Poop on 2008 10 13 I do understand that peoples dogs are very important to them. I still don’t understand why they have to be accepted in every public park 365 days a year.
Dog owner, I have talked to some of the councilors and I encourage you to do the same. The answer I got is they are receiving calls about problems. Also you need to look no further than this very web site to see why a lot of the people won’t speak up. Look at how some respond to me. I do believe that many of you are responsible owners, but let me tell you of those that aren’t. Sunday I took my dog for a walk down the greenbelt and down under the bridge then up through millcreek. One pile of poop on the greenbelt two piles under the bridge and one I was lucky enough to step in at Millcreek. Sopo dog group does a good job working with those who care. However you will always have the bad ones that don’t and they will in the end spoil it for all of us that have dogs. CommunitySplit on 2008 10 13 Interesting post, First off it’s not my group there are a number of people involved and we are all just in the beginning stages. The committee is over and as I said before we agreed not to talk out until it was done. Well the committee is done and from what I can read from your posting you would like me to give up my first amendment rights. I am a citizen of South Portland and no longer a committee member I do not speak for the committee. As much as it bothers some people that I speak up I have never once and never will ask someone with a differing opinion not to speak. It is one of the most important things we can do. Also for someone that chastised me for not putting my name on the web site, I did notice yours is not on your post. I hope it the future people will use their names on the posts. By John G on 2008 10 13 Again wow....
By Oh Poop on 2008 10 14 Mr. Crosby, you complain about how people have responded to your message, yet I am the one called an “idiot” by one of your cohorts. You suggested a dog park and so I responded to this idea. I was respectful and shared my views ("first amendment” right?). So, please explain why it is those that are opposed to dogs on Willard Beach that are the ones who are angry, rude, and intimidating? By Dog Owner on 2008 10 14 John G. - I posted my comment as an individual with my own thoughts and ideas. You need to contact Patti Smith directly to get her views on open space issues or just review the Land Trust debate that was broadcast on SPC-TV. I am sure she would be happy to discuss these issues with you directly. By Scott on 2008 10 14 I am a dog owner and a resident of South Portland. Gary, what I don’t understand about your position is that you’re saying because 100% of people are not in compliance with city ordinances, then those who do follow the law need to suffer for it. Some teenagers are disrespectful and unruly but I would never recommend banning them from a public space. Some people are irresponsible drivers but I don’t think we should ban all automobiles. This is an issue of enforcement. John G - I hate to break it to you but I am also a resident of South Portland. It would be nice if people would be a little more tolerant and understanding of those who have different hobbies and ways to spend their free time. I don’t understand why you think your use of public space is more important than mine. You have the gall to say that dog owners are imposing their will on the general population. I’ve never told you not to go to the space while I am there and I am happy to keep my dog away from you and your family. I value your right to use public spaces… too bad you don’t feel the same way about others. For your example of leaving an oil stain in front of someone’s house to make sense, you must believe that people never leave behind litter or trash. Apparently you believe that only dog owners leave behind waste. I can tell you that the dog owners groups and others picked up tons of trash on Earth Day at Hinckley Park. I have yet to see a dog drinking a six pack of Miller High Life so I am going to conclude that much trash was human-generated. Again, it is an enforcement issue - litterers and owners of dogs who don’t pick up need to be fined. By tolerance on 2008 10 14 We live in a community. We don’t have to like everyone, thier children, thier pets, the noise they create, the butts they toss out windows while driving, the bikes they ride through public space, etc.
By mydawg on 2008 10 14 I’ve got a dog, dog is my copilot, my dog is my dog, dogity dog dog, everybody needs a dog, I walk my dog, my dog walks me, dogitaa dog dog, I think about my dog, dream dogs, feed my dog, dogma is dog, dog dogma, dharma and dog, beach dog, leash dog, regatta de dog dog, vote for my dog, talk to my dog, eat with my dog, don’t eat dog, dog eat dog, his dog, her dog, their dog, dogs dog, dog grammy, dog oscar, dog brush, dog god it, god dog it, dognification, dog drummer, dog breath, dog variation, dog standard, dig dog, dog dig, dig dogitty dog, dog digitty dog, ding dog, dog ga ga ga ga, ga dog it, dog ga git, dog dog, dog brain, brain on dog, brain in dog, dog on brainnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn! By statebeaches on 2008 10 14 there is a link to rules regarding dogs at state beaches on the savewillard website. Willard is not a state owned beach. Other city regulated beaches, such as Higgins Beach, restrict dogs in peak months, however, the rules are clearly posted and allow more access for people to enjoy time on the beach with the dogs.
By Crystal Goodrich (southportlanddog@yahoo.com) on 2008 10 14 Hello John G.-
By CommunitySplit on 2008 10 14 Hello Mr. Crosby-
By Beach to Beecher on 2008 10 14 Councilor Maxine Beecher is proposing to ban all dogs from Willard Beach May through November. So, it appears that the City Council only cares about what their appointed committees recommend if it is the outcome they wanted in the first place. Apparently Beecher intends to ignore the Task Force final report before even going over it in public for the first time on Wednesday night. What a slap in the face to the Task Force appointees and to the public. We deserve better from our elected leaders. Looks like the special interests of a small group outweigh all others. Thanks Beacher, oops Beecher! By WD (gwenrockz@gmail.com) on 2008 10 18 Why not put this on the ballot and let the residents of South Portland decide?? By MorePolitics on 2008 10 18 WD - it is ironic that the four leading dog-opponents (Steve Gray, Dan Labrie, Gary Crosby, and John Murphy) are conservatives who typically argue for less government intrusion or legislation yet want the City to legislate a solution to their fear of poop. Oh, that is right, like most conservatives, government is good only when it serves their best interests. Personally, I would support a ballot question as long as the following are also on the ballot: Would you support banning children from South Portland year round even if claims of broken windows by baseballs, trampled gardens, and graffiti by some children are unfounded? Would you support banning all drivers in South Portland because a few don’t obey the rules and stop at lights or adhere to the speed limit? Would you support banning all humans from Willard Beach because monthly and annual clean-up events have proven that humans contribute far too much waste and debris (such as butts, diapers, bottles, etc.)? Really, WD, where does it stop? By mike (rottenaggie@yahoo.com) on 2008 10 18 I have to agree with CommunitySplit. Gary, who has never been known for being reserved in his opinions (which is absolutely fine in my opinion) is acting downright wacky. There is more to this story than meets the eye.
By Gimmeabreak on 2008 10 18 Are you kidding me MorePolitics? I laugh when people compare pets to humans. I’m sorry, as much as I love my dog, I believe humans come first. I would completely support putting this issue on the ballot. I support banning dogs from Willard Beach in the summer months, it makes sense to me. I would also support building a dog park, and yes, they do work. Dogs are not humans, I hate to break it to some of you. I had to laugh when someone suggested putting a fence around the playscape at the beach. Fence in our kids so the dogs can run wild? That’s just wrong. By No Break Given on 2008 10 19 You deserve no break, “Gimme”. You appear irrational and zealot-like on this issue. So, humans come first? Well, us humans aren’t doing such a great job. I was at Bug Light Park this past week when a field trip of Holy Cross students were walking the greenbelt. I witnessed a student take what looked like a granola bar out of his backpack to eat, and then he threw the wrapper on the ground...even though he just passed a trash can about 15 feet back. Then I saw about six female students stop, pick up some rocks, and start throwing them in attempts to hit a flock of birds floating on the water...all the while laughing. Perhaps we should ban all children from our parks and beaches, too? By GiveMeABreak on 2008 10 19 Gimmeabreak
By Gary Crosby on 2008 10 23 Mike, Thanks for the compliments, I guess I will start by giving you my reasons for thinking dogs should be off the beach during the summer. I don’t believe that it is sharing when many people bring their dogs to the beach do their thing and then say it’s my turn to use it. I find it both potentially unhealthy and down right gross. I have a dog and I do not play or picnic in the area of the yard were we keep her and I suspect no one would want to, dog owner or not. There are a lot of people I have heard from that have had a lot of run ins with both dogs and owners. I don’t see a problem with truly sharing this city asset 6on/6off. There are plenty of places to walk dogs in So. Portland for those 6 months. In fact 9 other places according to the sopodog site. I find the green belt works fine for us. Having an opinion that’s different than yours isn’t wacky as you put it, just different. The reason I don’t have a problem with dogs on the beach during the winter is people are not laying in the sand with swim suits on or picnicking and it’s highly unlikely that little kids will be playing in the sand in the off season. As far as Dan and the other beach front residents, they have a very valid point when it comes to noise. We have a noise ordinance but it is completely unenforceable down there unless we as a city put a cop on the beach full time and we know that’s not going to happen. The cure is simple, just not easy. By the way Mike did you take a Dale Carnage course? Maybe use your whole name. We all know who I am. As some of the city councilors pointed out Monday night if people are going to speak at least take responsibility for your thoughts and use your name. If someone does not use their name their post really is pretty void of any substance. By David (deva24us@yahoo.com) on 2008 10 26 As a parent I am only afraid of the water at the beach as far as pollutants, by humans contaminating by the way. Summer in Maine 6 months is very funny, if any compromise should come about it should only be over July and August. Anyone that lives by Willard not happy with their neighborhood should have done their homework before buying. Any elected official running for re-election that wants to change the rules drastically at Willard won’t have my vote or respect. This topic during these times are a sad symbol of our city council that should just bang the gavel and state this is how its been, this is how it is, and this how it will stay. By Tired dog owner on 2008 10 26 When I bought my house in South Portland I chose very carefully. I did not buy a very cute house that was right next to a school because I did not want to hear kids being noisy. I did not buy a house next to the airport for obvious reasons. I did not buy a house right on a main street as I did not want to here traffic all the time. I chose where I wanted to live, I did research and chose a really nice house in a fairly quiet area about a block from Willard Beach. I am wondering why if you buy or build a house on a public beach you now decide there is a noise problem with dogs. Also, for those who say dogs are running in their yard (and one man said in his house?) Shut your door...if I left my door open animals will come in, this includes wildlife. I personally can’t stand cats, but they are all over my neighborhood, I keep my door shut. As for dogs in your yard, do what others do on regular public streets, put up a fence with a gate. You bought a house on a PUBLIC BEACH!!! |
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Reader Comments
Jon G. said
... Oh Jonathan G., go back to Beach Street and pull the shades. Your idea about the armory is foolish, and the truth is that dogs are owned by many people in
Posted on 2009 01 05
From 'Will Voters Determine Beach Access for Dogs?'.
Vacationers said
... I spent 10 days in South Portland last summer. My husband and I rented a house by Willard Beach and it was a fantastic vacation. In fact, the main
Posted on 2009 01 05
From 'Will Voters Determine Beach Access for Dogs?'.
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