Mass. Public Health Dept. Warns of Dog Waste on Beaches http://www.southportlander.com/index.php/article/mass_public_health_dept_warns_of_dog_waste_on_beaches/ en-us lfullert@maine.rr.com Copyright 2008 2008-08-03 T;00:35:01-05:00 Comment by SP SP Maybe councilor Boudreau was right.  that statment sounds pretty agressive and intimidating.  No wonder people don’t want to speak up they figure they will be verbally attacked for disagreeing. Maybe councilor Boudreau was right.  that statment sounds pretty agressive and intimidating.  No wonder people don’t want to speak up they figure they will be verbally attacked for disagreeing.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by mike rottenaggie@yahoo.com StopAlready, Are you serious? What is your suggestion? Stop commenting so their wacky claims go unchallenged? My opinion is that this website has offered a valuable forum for discussion for the, as you put it, “pro-public access” side. On the other hand, my guess is that the the “anti” side is represented by one or two people who log in under different anonymous names. I would kill to see the IP addresses for “all” of these anti folks. StopAlready,
Are you serious?
What is your suggestion? Stop commenting so their wacky claims go unchallenged?
My opinion is that this website has offered a valuable forum for discussion for the, as you put it, “pro-public access” side. On the other hand, my guess is that the the “anti” side is represented by one or two people who log in under different anonymous names. I would kill to see the IP addresses for “all” of these anti folks.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by StopAlready StopAlready Can the pro-public access peeps stop commenting? It is only fueling the anti-public access side and giving them coverage for their false accusations. It would be nice to open this blog and not see this as the top story...wouldn’t you agree?  Thanks. Can the pro-public access peeps stop commenting? It is only fueling the anti-public access side and giving them coverage for their false accusations. It would be nice to open this blog and not see this as the top story...wouldn’t you agree?  Thanks.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by Crystal Goodrich http://www.sopodog.com Based on the information from the Mass. report, yes those scientific facts have been proven. Someone can get sick from feces. That is why it is picked up. The South Portland Dog Owners Group continues to work with members of the community to promote responsible dog ownership, one facet of that being - everyone must clean up after their dog and dispose of it properly. In the Healthy Maine Beaches Report, there is only one line in the entire booklet to address beach health related to dog access: when properly disposed of is not a health concern. I have been away for three weeks and it seems the conversation continues, and I think that’s great! We have been putting away the concerns people have had for years, always crossing our fingers for this spring to be over so people will again “forget” Willard Beach complaints for another year. This time is different. The worries and complaints are getting the attention (a lot of attention in my opinion) that is needed to really answer them with truth, reality and scientific fact. The concerns of the dog owners and other citizens who have felt marginalized in their use of public spaces have also been heard. I think since I have lived here (5+ years) this is the first time I have felt truly heard. It’s time we all came to a point where everyone is heard, the issues are addressed, public education is facilitated, the Dog Owners Group can continue to be positive stewards of open spaces (not just Willard Beach) and we can all realize this is a public space we all need to use responsibly and respectfully of others. thank you, Crystal Goodrich President of the South Portland Dog Owners Group Based on the information from the Mass. report, yes those scientific facts have been proven. Someone can get sick from feces. That is why it is picked up. The South Portland Dog Owners Group continues to work with members of the community to promote responsible dog ownership, one facet of that being - everyone must clean up after their dog and dispose of it properly.
In the Healthy Maine Beaches Report, there is only one line in the entire booklet to address beach health related to dog access: when properly disposed of is not a health concern.
I have been away for three weeks and it seems the conversation continues, and I think that’s great! We have been putting away the concerns people have had for years, always crossing our fingers for this spring to be over so people will again “forget” Willard Beach complaints for another year. This time is different. The worries and complaints are getting the attention (a lot of attention in my opinion) that is needed to really answer them with truth, reality and scientific fact. The concerns of the dog owners and other citizens who have felt marginalized in their use of public spaces have also been heard. I think since I have lived here (5+ years) this is the first time I have felt truly heard.
It’s time we all came to a point where everyone is heard, the issues are addressed, public education is facilitated, the Dog Owners Group can continue to be positive stewards of open spaces (not just Willard Beach) and we can all realize this is a public space we all need to use responsibly and respectfully of others.

thank you,
Crystal Goodrich
President of the South Portland Dog Owners Group

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by resident resident I thought you were talking the state rules with rangers and all.  Not interested in what the other towns are doing.  Just because someone else is doing something doesn’t make it right. I thought you were talking the state rules with rangers and all.  Not interested in what the other towns are doing.  Just because someone else is doing something doesn’t make it right.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by anonymous anonymous Let’s follow the lead of towns like Scarborough, Kennebunk, or Old Orchard rules and allow far more time for dogs on the beach!! Be careful what can of worms you open “resident.” You probably know that Willard Beach currently has far more restrictive rules around access for people with dogs than similar towns in southern Maine. The task force knows. Let’s follow the lead of towns like Scarborough, Kennebunk, or Old Orchard rules and allow far more time for dogs on the beach!! Be careful what can of worms you open “resident.” You probably know that Willard Beach currently has far more restrictive rules around access for people with dogs than similar towns in southern Maine. The task force knows.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by Resident Resident It works for me.  Sounds like we are in agreement.  We just did what the city council couldn’t do. Cool It works for me.  Sounds like we are in agreement.  We just did what the city council couldn’t do.
Cool

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by state beaches state beaches why not follow state beach rules?  first, because Willard is not a state beach.  Second, if you want to go that way, then instituting a fee for everyone accessing the beach seems reasonable to me, they do it at state beaches and parks.  maybe then we will get a state park ranger who will fine both the dogs owners for breaking rules, as well as the people breaking them.  I say ban smoking on the beach!  Why not, [laying football is already banned and that isn’t proven to cause cancer in bystanders. why isn’t anyone calling the police on the people using the beach after 9pm?  the beach is supposed to be closed at that time. why not follow state beach rules?  first, because Willard is not a state beach.  Second, if you want to go that way, then instituting a fee for everyone accessing the beach seems reasonable to me, they do it at state beaches and parks.  maybe then we will get a state park ranger who will fine both the dogs owners for breaking rules, as well as the people breaking them.  I say ban smoking on the beach!  Why not, [laying football is already banned and that isn’t proven to cause cancer in bystanders.
why isn’t anyone calling the police on the people using the beach after 9pm?  the beach is supposed to be closed at that time.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by Resident Resident in the spirit of sharing then why not follow state rules for beaches?  I don’t think I can buy the slippery slope issue on the beach. I just don’t see it happening, privileges and rights are very different and bringing a dog to the beach is a privilege.  Going to the beach yourself I would consider a right as a tax payer you are a part owner. in the spirit of sharing then why not follow state rules for beaches?  I don’t think I can buy the slippery slope issue on the beach. I just don’t see it happening, privileges and rights are very different and bringing a dog to the beach is a privilege.  Going to the beach yourself I would consider a right as a tax payer you are a part owner.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by mike rottenaggie@yahoo.com Resident, No one has to say “keep the public off the beach.” They will whittle away at the rights, just as DoneMyResearch pointed out, little by little, issue by issue, until in fact the beach may as well be private. This fact is why although I agree that dog ownership is a choice and dogs should not be allowed everywhere, I think a reasonable person could compromise by allowing a dedicated time for each of the interested parties to utilize the beach. I am a dedicated sailor and I absolutely loathe jet skis, but I cringe every time I hear of another body of water being off-limits to jet skis. There is no reason we all can’t find compromise. If you don’t like dogs, don’t go to the beach from 6a-9a. If you don’t like kids, don’t go from 9a on. It’s a matter of learning to give a little to get a little, and I think SoPoDog has done an admirable job of being the good neighbor in this situation. Resident,
No one has to say “keep the public off the beach.” They will whittle away at the rights, just as DoneMyResearch pointed out, little by little, issue by issue, until in fact the beach may as well be private. This fact is why although I agree that dog ownership is a choice and dogs should not be allowed everywhere, I think a reasonable person could compromise by allowing a dedicated time for each of the interested parties to utilize the beach.
I am a dedicated sailor and I absolutely loathe jet skis, but I cringe every time I hear of another body of water being off-limits to jet skis. There is no reason we all can’t find compromise. If you don’t like dogs, don’t go to the beach from 6a-9a. If you don’t like kids, don’t go from 9a on.
It’s a matter of learning to give a little to get a little, and I think SoPoDog has done an admirable job of being the good neighbor in this situation.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by a resident a resident when are people going to get it.  The beach is public.  Dogs are domesticated animals NOT part of the public they are owned.  Again no one has ever said keep or get the public off the beach.  and thank goodness we are not the west coast and I hope we never get like them. when are people going to get it.  The beach is public.  Dogs are domesticated animals NOT part of the public they are owned.  Again no one has ever said keep or get the public off the beach.  and thank goodness we are not the west coast and I hope we never get like them.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by DoneMyResearch DoneMyResearch Dear resident, I list facts then end the post with my personal belief that a handful of residents wish to make the beach private. How does that effect my credibility? I have watched other communities on the west coast deal with this issue. In most instances, the ones complaining don’t stop at just dogs. It then becomes any child under 18 cannot visit the beach unaccompanied by an adult; then it becomes limited hours for non-beach-residents; then it eventually becomes a private beach. Listening to the false accusations and hysteria generated by literally less than five people when it will affect hundreds or thousands is doing a great disservice to the taxpayers of this city. This is a PUBLIC beach and should remain so. If Mr. Labrie and his cronies wish to live in a gated Malibu community, I am sure we could all pitch in and buy him a map on how to get there. Keep the public beach open to the public! Thanks! Dear resident,
I list facts then end the post with my personal belief that a handful of residents wish to make the beach private. How does that effect my credibility? I have watched other communities on the west coast deal with this issue. In most instances, the ones complaining don’t stop at just dogs. It then becomes any child under 18 cannot visit the beach unaccompanied by an adult; then it becomes limited hours for non-beach-residents; then it eventually becomes a private beach. Listening to the false accusations and hysteria generated by literally less than five people when it will affect hundreds or thousands is doing a great disservice to the taxpayers of this city. This is a PUBLIC beach and should remain so. If Mr. Labrie and his cronies wish to live in a gated Malibu community, I am sure we could all pitch in and buy him a map on how to get there.
Keep the public beach open to the public!
Thanks!

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by a resident a resident You throw out all credibility when at the end you say a few want to make it private.  I suppose that’s a fact too. You throw out all credibility when at the end you say a few want to make it private.  I suppose that’s a fact too.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by anon anon is this the same person or the same people who call the police at the stoke of 9:01pm to have them come shut down wedding celebrations at SMCC?  Must be terrible to live in such a place with dogs and weddings and students playing football and .... is this the same person or the same people who call the police at the stoke of 9:01pm to have them come shut down wedding celebrations at SMCC?  Must be terrible to live in such a place with dogs and weddings and students playing football and ....

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by sopo_westend sopo_westend Meanwhile, the other side of the city is becoming a haven for thieves and thugs.  Time to set some new priorities, I think. Meanwhile, the other side of the city is becoming a haven for thieves and thugs.  Time to set some new priorities, I think.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by DoneMyResearch DoneMyResearch Well, I’ve done my research as suggested. Here is what I found: *I found that there are only a few people, yes, less than a handful who have publicly complained about dogs being on the beach. *I found that these few people have made exagerated comments in order to bolster their claims and scare the Council and the public. *I found that these false claims include saying there are hundreds of dogs on the beach at a time, that there are thousands of pounds of dog poop left behind, that people are getting sick, that people are getting sick because of the dog poop, and that there is no enforcement. *I found that the TRUTH includes: daily enforcement by the Animal Control officer include issuing tickets and warnings to those confused by the contradicting signage at the beach, people are not getting sick at the beach nor are they in danger at the beach, dog feces is not to be feared (bird feces and human debris are more apt to cause illness), and dog owners who visit the beach are responsible and pick up after their pets (and even pick up after thoughtless adults & their kids). *I found that the Mr. Labrie and Mr. Gray did not get approval to make changes in a Shoreland Zone to erect the posts and fences at Mr. Labrie’s “personal” entrance to the beach and that they can be fined for this violation. *I found that the City leaders are not pursuing this Shoreland Zone infraction and reporting it to the State, EPA or DEP as they are supposed to and that they are spending more time trying to placate Mr. Labrie than seeing that there really is no problem on Willard Beach. *I found that Mr. Gray was issued a warning for making false police calls and false claims of dogs on the beach. *I found that people who cry wolf or do or say anything beyond reason just to be heard and get what they want are not people I would want as neighbors and certainly should not be taken seriously by our city leaders. *Lastly, I found that this non-issue has wasted a great deal our city leaders’ time, police time, and a great deal of taxpayer money which effects every resident. We need to start ignoring the rants of the few who want to make Willard a private beach. Well, I’ve done my research as suggested. Here is what I found:

*I found that there are only a few people, yes, less than a handful who have publicly complained about dogs being on the beach.
*I found that these few people have made exagerated comments in order to bolster their claims and scare the Council and the public.
*I found that these false claims include saying there are hundreds of dogs on the beach at a time, that there are thousands of pounds of dog poop left behind, that people are getting sick, that people are getting sick because of the dog poop, and that there is no enforcement.
*I found that the TRUTH includes: daily enforcement by the Animal Control officer include issuing tickets and warnings to those confused by the contradicting signage at the beach, people are not getting sick at the beach nor are they in danger at the beach, dog feces is not to be feared (bird feces and human debris are more apt to cause illness), and dog owners who visit the beach are responsible and pick up after their pets (and even pick up after thoughtless adults & their kids).
*I found that the Mr. Labrie and Mr. Gray did not get approval to make changes in a Shoreland Zone to erect the posts and fences at Mr. Labrie’s “personal” entrance to the beach and that they can be fined for this violation.
*I found that the City leaders are not pursuing this Shoreland Zone infraction and reporting it to the State, EPA or DEP as they are supposed to and that they are spending more time trying to placate Mr. Labrie than seeing that there really is no problem on Willard Beach.
*I found that Mr. Gray was issued a warning for making false police calls and false claims of dogs on the beach.
*I found that people who cry wolf or do or say anything beyond reason just to be heard and get what they want are not people I would want as neighbors and certainly should not be taken seriously by our city leaders.
*Lastly, I found that this non-issue has wasted a great deal our city leaders’ time, police time, and a great deal of taxpayer money which effects every resident. We need to start ignoring the rants of the few who want to make Willard a private beach.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by a resident a resident What a bunch of uninformed people you are.  If even one of you took the time to really think about it with an open mind you might see things a little differently.  First off it’s not just Dan Labrie there are other people that want dogs off the beach.  At no time has a single person uttered the words the public should be off the beach.  As for Linda Boudreau she is doing exactly what she is supposed to do like it or not. She is looking out for the health and safety and well being of the rest of the 23,000 people in the city not a vocal minority.  By the way the city is working on stormwater, combined sewer outflows, ship discharge, etc....?  A shipping co. was just fined a lot of money from what I understand and I would think and hope not do it again.  Do your research and then make an informed decision.  I did and I think I don’t want friend’s neighbors and co-works that say to me come on over and play where my dog crapped and peed.  No thanks What a bunch of uninformed people you are.  If even one of you took the time to really think about it with an open mind you might see things a little differently.  First off it’s not just Dan Labrie there are other people that want dogs off the beach.  At no time has a single person uttered the words the public should be off the beach.  As for Linda Boudreau she is doing exactly what she is supposed to do like it or not. She is looking out for the health and safety and well being of the rest of the 23,000 people in the city not a vocal minority.  By the way the city is working on stormwater, combined sewer outflows, ship discharge, etc....?  A shipping co. was just fined a lot of money from what I understand and I would think and hope not do it again.  Do your research and then make an informed decision.  I did and I think I don’t want friend’s neighbors and co-works that say to me come on over and play where my dog crapped and peed.  No thanks

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by mike rottenaggie@yahoo.com I would agree that public discourse was a good thing if in fact there were some basis in reason for this whole discussion. Linda Boudreau as good as said, “To hell with democracy. I don’t care that the pro-dog crowd is well-organized and that the anti-dog crowd has almost zero representation. I’m going to vote with the very small minority.” She indicated without hesitation that the pro-dog group was “intimidating,” and that the “anti-dog” side didn’t dare to confront the “pro-dog” side. Hogwash. That in and of itself should scare the pants off anyone, regardless of where they stand on this issue. Think about it folks. We have a counselor who has absolutely no interest in the democratic process. Even if you are against dogs, Labrie could be against YOUR issue next, and Boudreau will be in lockstep with his demands REGARDLESS of what the people of this city say. I quite honestly could care less whether dogs get removed from the beach. But the fact that Ms. Boudreau is flat out refusing to recognize that a well-organized group of people has acted responsibly and has been willing to compromise, up to and including spending one day a month cleaning EVERYONE’S trash from the beach, and instead is acting in the interest of one man. If that doesn’t raise your eyebrows, then you deserve whatever you get. Think globally act locally indeed. This is not now, nor has it ever been about dogs. This is about public property rights, and compromises that must come about in order for the largest percentage of the population to harmoniously utilize that property. Plain and simple. And EVERYONE should work toward that goal, or folks like Labrie will make sure that eventually none of us - dog owners or not - have a say. I would agree that public discourse was a good thing if in fact there were some basis in reason for this whole discussion. Linda Boudreau as good as said, “To hell with democracy. I don’t care that the pro-dog crowd is well-organized and that the anti-dog crowd has almost zero representation. I’m going to vote with the very small minority.” She indicated without hesitation that the pro-dog group was “intimidating,” and that the “anti-dog” side didn’t dare to confront the “pro-dog” side. Hogwash. That in and of itself should scare the pants off anyone, regardless of where they stand on this issue. Think about it folks. We have a counselor who has absolutely no interest in the democratic process. Even if you are against dogs, Labrie could be against YOUR issue next, and Boudreau will be in lockstep with his demands REGARDLESS of what the people of this city say. I quite honestly could care less whether dogs get removed from the beach. But the fact that Ms. Boudreau is flat out refusing to recognize that a well-organized group of people has acted responsibly and has been willing to compromise, up to and including spending one day a month cleaning EVERYONE’S trash from the beach, and instead is acting in the interest of one man. If that doesn’t raise your eyebrows, then you deserve whatever you get. Think globally act locally indeed.
This is not now, nor has it ever been about dogs. This is about public property rights, and compromises that must come about in order for the largest percentage of the population to harmoniously utilize that property. Plain and simple. And EVERYONE should work toward that goal, or folks like Labrie will make sure that eventually none of us - dog owners or not - have a say.

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by mjb mjb Thank you for the above comment! If this were truly about the safety of people (and any living creature for that matter) on the beaches, why aren’t we looking at the tremendous impact of stormwater, combined sewer outflows, ship discharge, etc....? And, this issue with the dogs on public beaches has drawn alot of people into public thought and discussion, which is always a good thing! Thank you for the above comment!
If this were truly about the safety of people (and any living creature for that matter) on the beaches, why aren’t we looking at the tremendous impact of stormwater, combined sewer outflows, ship discharge, etc....?
And, this issue with the dogs on public beaches has drawn alot of people into public thought and discussion, which is always a good thing!

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by mike rottenaggie@yahoo.com Is there a single instance of illness related to dogs on any beach, anywhere? Are we going to continue discussing this what-if situation infinitely? What other potentially-dangerous but essentially unlikely situations can we spend outlandish amounts of time and resources debating? Look, if Labrie is going to wag the dog in this town, why bother to continue debating and bringing up utterly silly topics of discussion? Kick the dogs off the beach and move on. This isn’t about dogs and everyone knows it. Why we keep pretending otherwise is completely confounding. It has been one issue after the other with this crowd. First it was beach erosion. Then it was noise. Then it was “dogs knocking down children and senior citizens.” Then it was the dinghies on the beach. Now it’s fecies-as-the-new-public-menace. Meanwhile, there have been how many break-ins in Pleasantville? Is it time for the public in South Portland to demand a task force on how the city council establishes priorities? Is there a single instance of illness related to dogs on any beach, anywhere?
Are we going to continue discussing this what-if situation infinitely? What other potentially-dangerous but essentially unlikely situations can we spend outlandish amounts of time and resources debating?
Look, if Labrie is going to wag the dog in this town, why bother to continue debating and bringing up utterly silly topics of discussion? Kick the dogs off the beach and move on. This isn’t about dogs and everyone knows it. Why we keep pretending otherwise is completely confounding. It has been one issue after the other with this crowd. First it was beach erosion. Then it was noise. Then it was “dogs knocking down children and senior citizens.” Then it was the dinghies on the beach. Now it’s fecies-as-the-new-public-menace.
Meanwhile, there have been how many break-ins in Pleasantville?
Is it time for the public in South Portland to demand a task force on how the city council establishes priorities?

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00 Comment by Anonymous Anonymous Perhaps we should change the name of Willard Beach to Dan Labrie Beach. We could pass laws restricting any people or pets within 500 yards of his home. We should also post a no-fly zone over his beach so those pesky birds wouldn’t be contaminating his space either! Perhaps we should change the name of Willard Beach to Dan Labrie Beach. We could pass laws restricting any people or pets within 500 yards of his home. We should also post a no-fly zone over his beach so those pesky birds wouldn’t be contaminating his space either!

]]> 2009-01-06T;02:48:00-05:00